Untended Graves | Dark Souls 3 Wiki

It's kind of like they made it really dark so you don't notice the quick copy/paste job.

But then they put the same boss at the end.

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I don't believe Untended Graves to be an illusion, there is no way every npc is just an illusion and I'm a schizo getting power from god know's where.

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i swear i remember something about yuria being here

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Unfortunately the tree jump is only for nostalgia in the untended graves, a shotgun would have been a welcome surprise.

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In addition to online messages being shared between the cemetery and untended graves, if you die in one version of the cemetery then your souls appear where you died in both versions. I don't know if that was intentional, but there are some interesting lore implications if it was (e.g., if it's an alternate timeline and one version is in the past, how can you pick up souls in the past that you haven't dropped yet?). Or it was just a programming oversight. It's interesting though.

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Firelink Shrine but it's a creepypasta

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Unintended graves

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If the Age of Fire and Age of Dark is a cycle, then this is the Age of Dark before the Lords of Cinder linked the flame. If you talked to Ludleth, he mentions a Fire Keeper and the Eyes of the Fire Keeper. The eyes show the darkness of the world before Ludleth and the Lords of Cinder linked the flame to "paint a new vision". The fire is now fading and the Player Character is given the choice to extend the Age of Fire or begin the Age of Dark "born of betrayal". "Scenes of betrayal" mentioned by Ludleth is another Player Character usurping the flame instead of linking it.

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There is a npc summon just before the boss. I used him to kill the invader, Crystal Lizards, and then the boss.

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I keep hitting the walls o the sides thinking thaf there might be illusionary walls. Well there was, but not in a place that I thought it would be. Dang this game has a lot of secret areas that may easily be missed if it weren't for this guides. There are no indications on that you haven't lit up all the bonfires in the game, unlike the ones on DS2.

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sad

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I think this timeline is Orbeck's Lord of Hollows timeline. It just makes sense with an (implied) firekeeper using sorceries, as well as Gundyr still being alive, despite the coiled sword not being in his chest anymore (orbecks robes mention that his specific black attire means he's a specialist in stealth magic, meaning he took the sword and hid himself from gundyr to proceed, since we're not alive to kill him). The whole area being behind Oceiros, who's obsessed with becoming a dragon. Orbeck came from the dragon school of Vinheim. Another weird connection: Orbeck being impliedly specialzed in stealth is very weird considering Oceiros was obsessed with his invisible baby, Ocelotte. Might be that Orbeck is Oceiros's missing son.

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Don’t know if anyone noticed this before but if you go to the giant tree at the start of the game it says “the seed of the giant tree is yet to fall”. If you go to the same spot in untended graves version of the Firelink shrine then you find the seed, indicating that it’s in the future.

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I think this place is neither the past or future because when the First Flame fades time itself gets all messed up. If you avoid talking to the Handmaiden until AFTER you visit the Dark Shrine she will say, "Oh thou'rt... Oh no. 'tis'nt anything, Ashen One" implying that she remembers you from the encounter at the Dark Shrine. Ludleth also mentions the dead Fire Keeper that you found the eyes on and says "We did everything we could to spare her from them." Yet the entire concept of this place seems to be showing you what will happen if you let the fire fade. I also don't understand why the world is permanently dark without the First Flame even though there should still be a sun in the sky. But whatever... I love these games.

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It took me a while to figure out what it was about this place that unnerved me so much, and then it finally hit me. It's so quiet. No Andre working his anvil, no ambient music, no crackling of a bonfire. Just your footsteps and the wind. Even the hollows and knights you face seem quieter here compared to the rest of the game. It's just... Nothing. Dark. Quiet. Empty. But still so familiar.
I get goosebumps every time I visit it. It's like I'm not supposed to be there.

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If you died here, then transport to Cemetery of Ash, you will find your souls on the same spot in that alternative reality. This is usefull to recover your souls and add info to lore, once it proves that the two realities coexist.

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Does putting the heads of the Lords work in this shrine?

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I just realized that the Illusory wall by Pickle Pee is not there if you already opened it in normal firelink shrine, that's interesting.

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I love how all over Dark souls forums people talk about how certain character are lorewise dead. As if they didn't listen to solaire in ds1 say that time is convoluted and how he and I simply phase in and out of time. etc etc. Basically if your boy is dead. He only dead in yo world But he aint necessarily dead in others.

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Honestly, coolest area in the game.

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you can get to eyes of a firekeeper via an illlusory wall on the main level where the coiled sword fragment is (:

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why do i always have a feeling Manus will crawl out of the darkness with the four kings at his side and will drag me into the abyss that's over the cliff

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Local undead says "5 more minutes", plunges the world in eternal darkness. More at 9

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All versions of firelink are canon.
Rekindling the flame doesn't actually stop the dark, it just puts it off. Just like extinguishing the flame doesn't kill the light, it just make the darkness last a little longer.
The universe of dark souls is an eternal cycle. From the darkness comes the spark which becomes fire, with fire comes light and prosperity. After a period of time, the flames fade and only the dark remains. But from darkness comes the spark. "And so the ash seeketh embers." Extingusing the flames or rekindling them, it's all just a fool's errand to stave off the inevitable.
Knowing this, the ending's true meaning becomes clear. If your actions have no bearing on the universe, then the meaning of the ending you choose is entirely introspective. Are you the kind of person that will burn out and seek their own death simply because others told you to. Or are you the type that would take control and work for your own best interest.

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I was able to get on top of firelink shrine by using the fallen tree, and the chest at the back of the shrine held the covetous silver serpent ring. I had not previously collected this ring.

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I just attacked the illusory wall where Irina used to lay and somehow fell through the floor and died.
There was a message saying "illusory wal ahead but stay calm", but I doubt the death was intended.

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GRANT US EYES, GRANT US EYES!

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There is a moon that you can see right as the cliff on the right pops up after you get past the sword guys and the dogs. Look down and angle the camera right there is a moon that is there for some bizarre reason I can't fathom. Might be interesting to add to the other notes section

This placed creeped me out like no other. The more I stayed the more the darkness got to me especially searching in the shrine. Just having the creepy alternate handmaiden being my only company while I tried to remember where all the little secrets were was enough to make me feel extremely unwelcome...or welcome in a nice body full of organs to harvest sort of way. I love creepy stuff and it was creepy in all the right ways best area in the game.

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"This seems to be a alternate version of the cemetery of Ash where the Flame has already been extinguished and the Age of Dark is already upon the world. According to Champion Gundyr's soul description it seems like he was the unkindled one destinted to link the Flame, but awoke too late and the world had already plunged into the Age of Dark. Perharps this place serves as a warning for future unkindled champions of what would happen if they choose to extingush the flame"

--if this is really true it's quite chilling.. as I've ignorantly chose that ending a few times now.. :X

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If you rate a message here, then go back to regular Firelink, the same message will be in the same place with the same rating.

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How is this place a warning for future unkindled champions? It's exactly as hopeless and ****ed up as the "normal" world with the difference that everything is dark :D

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How exactly is this a warning for future unkindled champions? It's exactly as hopeless and f*cked up as the "normal" world with the only difference that everything is dark :D

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I assumed this version of the world was a copy of one from the past that was pulled from the Abyss. (The Souls series uses a plain black background as the Abyss. Check the fight against Wolnir and the Four Kings as references.)

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Untended graves is supposed to be the past, which would imply that the fire is already dead. The current firelink exists outside of time and the flame here is powered only by the lords of cinder. The universe we travel through in the game is also the past, just before the fire went out. Untended graves is a warning from Oceiros about what happens when the flame dies. One of the reasons he was obsessed with becoming a dragon was he knew it would be useful to him in the dark world.

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I wonder, could one put the Cinders on their Thrones in Untended Graves? And if so, does this affect anyhow the gameplay?

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Want some lore ? Here, have some left over cut content and your finnest edgelord***** instead =)

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This place was so weird first time. One shotted Ocerios and Champ gundyr, went through firelink and the chills were everywhere. Probably for me the scariest place in ds3.

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The Firelink Shrine in the Untended Graves is supposed to be the real one,the Firelink Shrine back in Cemetery of Ash is probably an illusion. The entire area is connected to the Cemetery's progress. If you take the silver serpent ring and visit the exact same place in the Untended one,the chest will be open as well.

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This is cool and all, but why do you go there? What sort of contraption or magic just makes you go through a door and go to an alternate reality? And at what point in traveling there do you go to the alternate reality?

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If you kill the swordmaster in Firelink, but don't pick up his items, you can pick them up here instead.

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I got hollow's ashes at where Yoel used to be, what is it use for?

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So I fell while I was fighting one of the knights with an axe near the entrance of the Santuary and saw a weird blue/purple light at the bottom so I jumped a few more times to try and see it better. I think is water shining, which is really weird and probably sounds nonsensical since everything is all dark. The point is that I remembered the description of Aldrich's soul, wich says he saw a coming age of the deep sea, and since in the first version of this place we can see everything is surrounded by mountains I believe a little more this two things are related. So, the question now is, is this the past or the future? And the past or future to who? It is really clear that time isn't normal to us through the game, but what about the rest? Is the world so broken that even the past and future are almost one in the same? Or maybe I'm just overthinking things and I'm one crazy *****? I really want to know.

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I had the invader invade twice. And I know im offline. Can't play online till i update my xbox. So why the hell did she appear twice in a row before and after dying to the boss?

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Sword master is useless in this fight. But did help distract gundyr so i can cast poison mist. Poison worked amazing.

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Why is there no lore for the fact that Oceiros has a weird alternate dimension hidden behind a wall?

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Can i clear this area (Untended Graves) and still link the fire?

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Second worst area in the game, right behind Archdragon Peak. The name is an outright lie.

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The Untended Graves Shrine is the one you can walk to from the rest of the world, while the Cemetery of Ash Shrine can only be reached through warping. I think this means that when you leave Firelink Shrine and venture out into the world, you're traveling back in time. I think Firelink Shrine exists in the future, after countless ages of fire, when enough ash has accumulated to create creatures like the Unkindled. Maybe we have to go back in time to correct an error that led to our own creation.

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If you go to the edge of the map, and look down, theres a bright glow directly below. Anyone know what this is?

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Life ring behind the big throne

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i've seen a lot of theories about the past future and alternate timelines. and i think altogether each has merit, but i've yet to see a single mention of a small but glaring hint in the ringed city DLC. while i doubt im hardly the first person to realize this or point it out elsewhere. has anyone tried to factor in the possibility that this place...this hub for dark souls 3, isn't the real firelink shrine at all. and i don't mean that the CoA version is fake and the untended graves is real. i mean that both are just ...fake. early in the ringed city DLC we find a very interesting location. the demon prince's boss room. and vets from dark souls one will most likely recognize a few structures here. the ORIGINAL firelink shrink is found here. which honestly might actually make a WHOLE lot more sense. only. im just not sure what that actually means. further more. there's yet another firelink shrine that i haven't seen mentioned. once the lords of cinder have been returnded to there thrones, you get the option to warp to the flameless shrine, yet another lookalike of the place this game referes to as firelink shrine. someone smarter than me would have to put all of this together in a more cohesive fashion but i can lay out what he know for sure. 1. there's a firelink shrine that seems to exist in a world where the flame still exists. 2. there's another firelink shrine in a world where the flame has gone out. 3. there's a THIRD firelink shrine called the firelink shrine. if i had to take a guess. this one exists in a version of the world that has come to a stalemate between light and dark. one might even call it the age of ash, or, perhaps given other hints in the game, the age of gray, such as in the time of the dragons, before disparity. 4. finally, there exists another, disused firelink shrine which appears to be the original shrine. whether this IS the original shrine and the world just warped its physical location away to a less important location, and the new firelink shrine is actually where the original used to be, or if the new firelink shrine is a flat out fake shrine, is uncertain. after having written this all out. i have an hypothesis. the original fire link shrine is dead. the flame went out and all went dark. the age of man actually did come and gundyr was awoken too late to do anything about it. this happened BEFORE the lords of cinder were roused from their graves. in a final last ditch effort to save the age of fire. the curse rouses the lords of cinder from their graves to link the fire (which is already out, so it would be more like, rekindling). but even if all the lords willingly came back and sacrificed themselves, it wouldn't have matter, because the fire was already gone. cinder in and of itself cannot beget flame. the lords are like logs that have been put on a fire and remain as nothing more that that fire aftermath. sure, if you had more logs to put on the fire it could have kept going, but you don't have any more loges. just the cinders you already burned. you can't 're-burn' a log that's been reduced to cinders. that's not how fire works. in other words.(SPOILERS AHEAD) IN OTHER WORDS, your quest was doomed from the start. you already lost and people were just clinging to the last embers of an already dead world. Filianores duty was to hide that truth. to hide the fact that the world was all been burned up, and that nought but ash remained. the only real way to proceed forward, is the lord of hollows ending. which sees the fire take a new form, something that uses the inexhaustible fuel of the dark soul of man to stay alight. so then what was the firelink shrine of this game? just a charade. what we see at the start of the game is little more than an illusion designed to give us hope. but the truth is that the untended graves version for the shrine is its real state. their is no fire there because the fire died long ago.

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This is small but it should say Where Yoel died instead of If.

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watched the video part,my eyes hurt,this is why i personally use only bucklers for the counter and not the bigger shields.you constantly hide behind them and you take no dmg as a result your skills are not challenged and you dont become good at the game,you die more but thats the point,as you get to know both your and your oponents limits in a fight.Her battles against the phantoms are the proof.

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If Sirris's questline is completed, you can loot her talisman in the untended graves. No other items, just her talisman. Maybe it has to do with it being called "Sunless."

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TIL that if you summon Phantom Sword Master, and then try to go back to get the invasion, Sword Master will inevitably fling himself off the cliff and die.

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This guy is a troll when it comes to punishing your attacks. Whenever I try and hit him he ends up kicking me in the face, when I finally beat him it was because he's so easy to parry.

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Can you have others help you fight champion gundyr

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I just noticed a hole in the time travel theory concerning the Dark Firelink Shrine. When you start the game and fight Iudex, his skin indicates he is Ashen. In addition, there is only one door standing between his arena and the Shrine interior, and the Handmaiden isn't surprised to meet you. Fast (forward?) To the Untended Graves. There are 2 doors standing, the Ashen aren't mindless, Iudex isn't Kindled, and the Handmaiden doesn't recognize you. My dudes, Untended Graves take place in the PAST. This changes everything

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As far as the lore for these Graves goes, I think the untended graves is an alternate reality in which, *possible spoilers* the heir of fire (you) had all the boss weapons and sold all the cinder souls during the life ring ++ run through, too the shrine maiden (because it's quicker then using them) who then betrayed the heir of fire after the lord of cinder fight and became the next lord of cinder and proceeded to just completely annihilate everyone for their ashes in some blood crazed frenzy, literally cut out the Fire Keepers eyes, and made the eyes see everything, so the next fire keeper has to watch the shrine maiden teabag the true heir of fire... The great betrayal!

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NG++
Ring of Life +3 behind Throne of Twins in the Shrine

maybe editing in Ring section too

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And an edit recommendation: there is a grave warden in the archway straight ahead, you can snipe him into a lure and kill him. Then you can take the grave warden/dog to the left. Then it's just the dogs to the right that are left to kill, and you needn't even kill them unless you want to fight the crystal lizards or access their area. Again, two grave wardens, about 6 dogs, no fire wielding hollows at all

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You guys need to fix the second paragraph, there are no fire casting hollows in this area

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I get the feeling there's something more to this place other than it being just a dark Firelink Shrine.

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Just as a tip not that it matters other than free souls but if you buy the priestest ring and murder the shrine handmaiden here she will drop a second priestest ring.

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To be honest, I feel like firelink shrine is more like the Nexus from Demon Souls, or the Dream from bloodborne. A place disconnected from "reality", but something that can be entered under special conditions.
The untended graves are the "real" thing. A dead flame, slowly spreading the abyss, just like Lothric and Lorian wanted. And it does spread, as seen by the area in front of oceiros. It even spreads as far as into the firelink shrine, when it spreads out of gundyr.
Stuff happening affects the NPC's in the shrine. The handmaiden recognizes us, because she is still linked to her "real" self in the untended graves, but the "spell", probably that of filianore, prevents her from realizing that she isn't the real handmaiden. After all, she respawns, while the one in UG does not. Same thing goes for the firekeeper, who is already dead in the UG. And if you give her the eyes, she comes to realize, that the Firelink shrine she is in, is not real - that she herself isn't real. Other characters can enter and leave the shrine, but they all are the real deal and not involved in the shrines "spell", that copied the handmaiden, the firekeeper and Andre.
Also, there is no character that joins the firelink shrine unless he made contact with you, despite Leonhardt, who is a notorious invader.

It's not a question of past, future or present, it's a question of real or not. A theme all dark Souls games inhertied at some point:
Dark Souls one had Gwyndolins spell on Anor Londo, to keep up the illusion of everything being fine.
Dark Souls 2 had Drangleic being entered through a weird maelstrom.
Dark Souls 3 has Filianore, te firelink shrine, and possibly the arch dragons peak, wich we enter much like we enter the memories in Dark Souls 2.

The only thing unclear to me is, who created the alternate firelink shrine. If it was Filianore, then how far did her spell reach? Was it only the ringed City? Firelink shrine? The whole game?
We find her hidden behind not one, not two, but three obstacles: Either inside the painted world or the Kiln of the first flame. Then in dreg heap. And after that, in the ringed city. Places normally unreachable, if not for the ashen one who linked gathered the lord souls.
Maybe she created one Nexus to protect herself (ringed city), and another one to protect the ashen one (firelink shrine).

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I found an interesting (albeit surely discovered) fact. I died to one of the BK (one guarding Chaos Blade) and since it was the only remaining item there and I grabbed it before he launched me to the moon, I did not bother to return for mere 4K souls. But when I returned to original Firelink Shrine, I found my souls laying down on the spot where I died in the Untended Graves. Neat feature :)

Champion Gundyr is quite amusing fight, Dynamic, brutal and overwhelming. However since I'm "filthy casul" anyway, I summoned the phantom of Sword Master, who proved himself to be amazing help. Mostly by distracting Gundyr so I can heal. The fight was rather short as I have almost 1400 HP, so I could afford to trade a blow there and there, basically spamming regular attacks with my Refined Dark Sword +9 (remember, filthy casul style) and under a minute or two, Gundyr fell down without me dying or using more than 6 estus sips.

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There is an interesting theory that the shrine we see in the Untended Graves is neither in the past, nor the future, but both. Or possibly more accurately, neither. Of course there's the handmaiden recognizing you, Ludlith's comment on the eyes, and Gundyr's armor description that all point to it being in the past, but there's also evidence for the opposite. The Coiled Sword Fragment's description says that it's "A fragment of the coiled sword of a bonfire which served its purpose long ago." (assuming the fragment isn't from a different bonfire) In addition to that, if you reach the dark shrine before defeating the Abyss Watchers, you won't find the Hornet Ring and the handmaiden won't have Artorias's armor, which raises the question of how something in the present can affect the past. But the most interesting part of this is in the Repair spell's description, which says "Light is time, and the reversal of its effects is a forbidden art." As we know, the Untended Graves are shrouded in darkness. It's quite possible that without the light of the flame, time simply doesn't exist. I wish I could also count the fact that whether you place a message in the normal cemetery/shrine or the dark one, it also appears in the other, which would further cement the idea. However, in terms of the level design, both areas are physically in the same place. For example, if you use noclip and back out of the Cemetery of Ash, you'll find yourself in the Consumed King's boss room, and if you try to go back in, you'll be in the Untended Graves. So, in short, I don't think the message thing is in any way lore-based.

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Wtf, where should be the pus of a man?

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i died the same time as Aldritch and ended up at the untended graves

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The most dangerous thing here are the dogs; the dogs become stronger.

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If you talk to Ludleth with the Fire Keeper's Eyes in your possession, he mentions remembering to whom they belonged, as well as the circumstances in which she died. He implies he kindled the flame shortly after to end the dark. Soooo this place is in the past.

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Fun fact: If you kill Yuria in your version of Firelink, Darkdrift will drop in her normal place here. I didn't think twice about killing her to get her ashes (after completing Anri's side of her quest) for the novelty of being able to buy her stuff, but now that I've made it here on that same character, Darkdrift was just sitting on the floor where she originally stood. I'm about to go on a killing spree (curious about Orbeck in particular, due to his connection to Yuria's questline) to see if it was just a fluke or if there's something to this.

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Past, future, blah-blah-blah... If anything is certain in Dark Souls (or all Soulsborne, for that matter), it's that nothing is ever certain. To me, it seems the Cemetery of Ash is more of a spiritual realm, whereas this Abyss-tainted version is the "true" version, connected in some way to the spreading Pus of Man and taint of the Abyss. Secondly, the Firekeeper's Soul and the Eyes of a Firekeeper both make mention of a Firekeeper who traveled to the Abyss, but learned to accept it and soothe the curse of her respective Champion--perhaps Gundyr, who is perceived from outside the Untended Graves as a Champion infected by the Pus of Man.

Most fans tend to forget that Dark Souls is heavily metaphysical, and doesn't submit to modern concepts of reality or time, exemplified in how the Ringed City or the Dreg Heap exist "beneath everything." The easiest way to describe these spiritually linked locations would be to describe them as alternate dimensions, but even that seems to be a little on the literal side. There's also the issue of astrological events that are viewed--or not viewed at all--from various locations, and how different Unkindled are able to "invade" upon others' worlds, as if this is nothing more than a simulacrum. It's important to realize that Dark Souls is a mythology, not a fantasy.

However, we know the one fact that rings true for all characters that the Age of Fire continues at present, as if this is one of the few laws that applies to all versions of this "multiverse." The Age of Dark is the definitive end of the First Flame, and precedes the long wait until Fire reignites, bringing new souls and restoring light to the lost civilizations. The Untended Graves still exists in the Age of Fire--it's merely a location tainted by the Abyss, similar to Wolnir's Abyss.

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Am I blind, or does the Sword Master summon in front of the Gundyr fight not get mentioned? Because I definitely fought him with a Phantom Sword Master, whose summon sign is right outside the fog gate where the two Hollows are standing...

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The most depressing thing that I saw in dark souls, come on! Everyone has died there is darkness everywhere, you're alone, it was really sad. I just wanted to loot the items quickly and get the hell out of there

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The untended graves are set in the past. It's obvious due to one simple yet heavily hidden thing. If you go through the entire game without once talking to the shrine handmaiden and make your way to the graves, talk to her then, and then finally go back to the cemetary of ash and talk to her there she will recognize you and say the following dialogue; "Oh thou'rt.. Oh no, 'tisn't anything, Ashen One." Afterwards, she will proceed with her standard opening dialogue. This heavily implies that she recognizes you, which would be impossible if the untended graves were set in anything but the past.

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Let me explain why, to me, this place isn't in past.

In the very beggining of the game, you just walk through to the shrine and you have no other choice than teleport to lothric. You can't walk anywhere from cemetery of ash and firelink shrine. Thats because it is actually another dimension.

Once you teleport to the Lothric, even without touching any bonfires, you can walk to the untended graves, which means all the game map that we have been playing mosty has dark firelink shrine and untended graves as default. The place where we start to the game is totally diffrent dimension. Thats actually why its not past, because when you use bonfire of main firelink shrine and teleport to the world we have been struggling, some npcs we meet immediately gets into our *hope* dimension and we meet them in shrine. The place we teleport at first of the game, starting with lothric, is actual dark age, which means those eyes of firekeeper we found makes our firekeeper to fell into depressive mood. Eyes just shows her the place where we teleport at first, the dark age. Also if you read dialogues of Twin Princes, they want you to let the world fall into darkness, so they already know we came from the dimension of hope to link the fire, and the reason we are struggling on this dark age is actually that its the dimension of "TRUTH".

Champion Gundyr is actual form of Gundyr , who was late to get his quest done. Iudex was having diffrent role with sheathing for coiled sword in our "hope" dimension.

well thats my idea and since untended graves share same earth with all other areas except first area ( cemetery of ash and first firelink shrine ), its not past. Another dimension, actually all dimensions bind into betrayal scenario, but even if you do something cool and save the world somehow, something from other dimensions can pull your's into darkness too. Because even after killing evil bosses from your own truth, you can go to other player's worlds and still kill those again, vice versa, your truth can be runined in anyway. Dark souls has a stupid anime-like tryhard lore, i can almost hear game itself screaming, i am god damn japanese game! Nice hopeless and desperate universe design though. I would like to world to be destoryed so there will be no more problems in my opinion... Poor souls, struggle all the time, and efforts are nonsense. Im glad there wont be another dark souls game.

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You can also obtain the silver serpent ring from the chest by glitching onto the balcony and goinf to the secret area

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After you been to this area, if you talk to ludleth it will be clear thet you have been in the past, not in an alternate version.

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Something weird just happened to me. I was waiting outside Gundyr's bossroom to be summoned when suddenly something threw throwing knives at me. I didn't see where they came from because I was using the steam's browser function (whatever it's supposed to be called) but I heard them hitting my character and when I got back to the game two throwing knives were stuck to my character and I had taken damage. I had already defeated the boss so it couldn't be an invader. I had also killed all nearby enemies (not that they could do it anyways). I didn't notice anything else out of ordinary. Has this happened to anyone else or does anyone know where those knives could have come from?

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someone gave gundyr alarm clock please.... woke up to late and boom the world consumed by darkness.... if only that happened irl too

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Another note that falls on the same page as the messages. If you die in the untended Graves, your souls will be in the same place in the cemetery of ash. I think this helps prove the theory that the Graves are the same place but in the past.

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black knights can be cheesed with a bow from inside the dark firelink shrine, as they won't enter

handy for farming their armour & weapons or if you're speed running through at a low level for prisoner's chain/hornet ring/priestess ring etc

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There is the black knight great axe here as well!

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Is it at all possible to link the fire at the dark fire link shrine?

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I haven't yet encountered this area, but it's pretty simple if you can take two equally opposed things and view them each as true. If you look into that quantum nonsense, for each choice that's a coin flip, reality splits. No one really knows what path the ashen one will take, they only assume she or he means to link the flame, even if it's damaged and the world is dying. As someone previously said, this is perhaps a warning as to what happens if you extinguish the flame, but that's present, the future maybe gets better. Some sciences claim photons split realities, then reform again, subject to observers blah blah I don't get it.

Add to that a third choice, it's now a three body problem... and as anyone knows, those are not solvable with any degree of certainty. That's where chaos starts to play, and the real concern is, there's literally NEVER a two-body problem, there's always outside interference. Even a seemingly sane person wears multiple masks, like layers. Just interacting with a human being is asking for trouble, even if you seek salvation from trouble, everything has strings attached and your best is never really good enough... then consider you can factor the sun and the earth all you like, but if you forget the moon then you miss the point.

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IM gonna make my theory as thorough as possible to deter any potential questions or arguments.
Untended Graves is the present and also the real cemetary of ash.

There is no time traveling in Dark Souls, only dimension crossing, hence why you can summon phantoms and be summoned, and kill bosses multiple times.

Cemetary of Ash and Firelink Shrine are the only places in the world that cannot be traveled to on foot, or from. This is because, they are technically in another world.

Taking what we know about the story, is that we have a dying flame. Whenever a flame is dying, the darksign appears and heroes are summoned forth to link the fires again so the world doesnt fall into darkness (which is wierd cuz everyones undead), the exception being demon souls where the king brought the undead curse upon himself.

Here we have Watchers, Aldritch and Yharm who have linked the fire before, survived, and see that the world is falling into darkness. They are ordered (by someone) to go burn alive again to rekindle the flame but they all say "hell no". The Darksign summons Gundyr, but he was too late and the world falls into darkness. Few things survive and everyone in firelink shrine succumbs to the curse and dies.

Enter Ludleth of Courtland... or Ludleth the Exiled.

Somehow someway Ludleth who "will'd himself a Lord" (becuase he was never meant ot be one) couldnt save firelink from the curse, so he found a new cemetary of ash (becuase you know, once again, dark souls is all about traversing multiple words) and linked the rest of the worlds fire to that, and also made the sacrifice...Somehow he survived. Ludleth, who was never meant to be a lord of cinder, hence why he barely survived while everyone else became big badasses with superpowers. It was Ludleths strong will that allowed him to do that. And the mans will is plenty strong, having cut off his own legs to make sure he stayed sealed to his fate as a lord of cinder. The curse was still strong ,so they sealed the original ash cemetary behind Oceiros throne so that it wouldnt spread to the rest of the world.

Remember, though they exist in the exact same space. You can walk to untended graves, you HAVE to warp, or summon yourself to cemetary of ash.

Needless to say, this pissed off the other lords, because now that the fire was back , the edict to sacrifice themselves was back in effect.They exiled ludleth, but the man still was given his title and throne.

Now, as we know worlds are direct parallels . So whatever is done in one world still has some type of effect in the other. However Firelink Shrine is special. The rules of time and space dont flow normally there. Rememeber, throughout the entire Souls collection, it is never mentioned how much time passes between events. Time is wierd at Firelink, and is seperate from the rest of the world. Hence, when you kill three lords, the dark sign appears and the sky is set to evening... everywhere but Firelink Shrine and Archdragons Peak... both worlds which cannot be reached by foot. The people who are alive at CoA are the same people who succumbed to the curse at Untended Graves, just parallel versions....

...except the firekeeper. She was the original.

The firekeepers are blind. Because , she was special. The Keeper at CoA knew that Ludleth knew something. If you gave her those eyes, she wouldve seen the original firelink. The world Ludleth linked would not have existed for her . Basically, her eyes could see the truth. She wouldve beheld a world of darkness, and all the horrors of the curse, because, once again, both untended graves and CoA are in the exact same spot. Ludleth knows this, after all. He hid the original firekeepers' eyes (him and gundyr? or just him?)

Gundyr exists here in CoA becuase you kill him in untended graves. But its not the past and present. Everything that happens at Firelink specifically happens all at once.

Because once again, Firelink is special. It may actually be limbo. Thats why all the undead hero souls gather there and time seems not to exist. Hence why it links to the first Kiln/Lordran (heaven?) and the rest of the world.

Anyways, all of this is hinted in Ludleths dialogue. The betrayal, i believe was the other lord of cinders unwillingness to return to the kiln, or possibly lothrics inability to. And the result was the flame dying and gundyr being late to the party. BEcause whoever was usppoed to linkt he flame before gundyr didnt do their job, so there was no flame to link.

Which honestly, Im okay with. I would not want to fight Rock Solid Champion Pus of MAn Gundyr as a final both equipped with flaming halberd.

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Is cemetery of ash the future, or past? I'm going to list things that may change your opinion. When placing a message in fire link it appears in cemetery of ash. The world is dark because either the fire is gone,or fading. You find a piece of a coiled sword "that has passed it's use". Meaning it was in the bonfire, and is now crumbling. When Yoel dies her ashes appear here. Meaning when she dies they show up in the future. Because had she died, and it was the past they would not occur here. you find the first fire keepers eyes. Oddly enough if this was the past it would mean someone has taken them before you so it would make more sense for someone to have hidden them. Gundyr has no blade in his chest. This is the past right? Perhaps Gundyr resurrected after having been slain, and having the sword pulled free. There is TWO ice demons instead of just the one. You find a body which you can assume is yours, however it could be a new body laid in place of you. The first bonfire in cemetery of ash is a dead end in the starting world without a bonfire, meaning it was placed there after the fact. The ladder is gone, and the gate is forever sealed leading to the tower. Pickle pee, and pumper rump's nest is not there, however the chest behind them remains. It is also possible that this world is a collision of both future, and past.

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Boop

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Hey I need some help ng+ PS4 place sign at first bonfire

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Silver Serpent Ring can be retrieved from a chest in the Shrine when executing the tree jump as if it was the normal FLS, but pickle-pee and pump-a-rum can't be found.

When looking down from Gundyrs bonfire sometimes items can be seen lying out of bounds. Theres a very high rated message that says "Try jumping" on a cliff close to the shrine, but doing so will result in falling into a deathplane.

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On the map there isn´t marked hollows ashes, that you can find in the room where Yoel of Londor is.

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Untended Graves is in the past and a place fire can't reach. Once you get the eyes and go back to Firelink Shrine, talk to Ludleth and he'll say "...Tis as if it were but yesterday."

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I feel the Untended Graves are in the past. The Coiled Sword says that he was bested by an unknown warrior and he became the Iudex. This would imply you are the unknown warrior. Hell the legend of Artorias we hear is actually of our character not Artorias' because we destroyed the Father of the Abyss.

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So lore-wise I think Firelink Shrine has 3 versions, past, present and future. Flameless Shrine is the past, Firelink is the present and Untended Graves is the future. On a side-note, "untended" might mean that this version of the shrine exists in a place that the fire could not affect and thus exclusively went to dark, though that does not explain the matching map and the double maidens.

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In NG+, Ring of Steel Protection +1 can be found to the right of the Tower entrance, behind where the Seed of a Giant Tree spawns.

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Ther is no Pus of Man in this Area

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There's also a big coffin in the boss room that's way too big for him, so I think that's Aldrich's that he climbed out of, and the trees roots are growing over it so that furthers my point that this could be the future.

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Unattended graves is the future I think, some people think it's the past but if you think about it..the fire keeper you find has eyes, and everything seems to be dark which makes me believe that the age of fire has already happened and she saw it all. This makes me believe that is the fire keeper that we all know and love.
The chaos blade is where sword master is, and there is a body where you find the chaos blade.
The handmaid seems to be waiting for you, as if she's seen you before or someone like you, she said something about being trapped like a poor girl, I think she means the fire keeper or Irina.
Everybody is missing, and blacksmith Andre's hammer is still there. So I believe that unattended graves are not the past, they're in the future.

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If you are embered you can summon the sword master for the fight against the champion gundyr it's to the right right before the fog gate

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